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Hi Dave (and all others),<br>
<br>
What you propose is fine by me.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Michel<br>
<br>
On 11/05/12 21:30, David Tank wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:E61BDD56-4015-4AF9-897B-9D6328B3E82E@uidaho.edu"
type="cite">
<div>Hi All,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
It's been brought to my attention that the results of the vote on
the CMB proposal have been made public: <span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://3lbmonkeybrain.blogspot.com/2012/05/phylocode-will-not-be-amended.html">http://3lbmonkeybrain.blogspot.com/2012/05/phylocode-will-not-be-amended.html</a></span>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">Clearly community discussion is what we wanted all
along, but the unfortunate thing is that the authors of the
proposal found out about the results of the vote not from us,
but through the grapevine via this blog, and they are not too
happy about it. </font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">I feel that it is our responsibility to communicate
directly with the authors to let them know where we are in
this process and give them some idea of the discussion that
took place. Something along the lines of:</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">Thank you for your thoughtful proposal for changes to
the PhyloCode, with respect to species. The CPN has voted to
reject this proposal, however, with that decision, the
committee also decided to continue discussion of the proposal
to identify if there are elements of the proposal we would
like to consider as revisions of the current draft code. That
discussion is still ongoing, and we will make you and the rest
of the society aware of these changes through the news section
of the ISPN website. </font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">Please feel free to edit - add, delete, etc. - I want
this communication with the authors of the proposal to come
from the CPN, not just me, so I appreciate your input. Also,
I wonder if we should post several of the responses and or
snippets of the discussion for the authors and rest of the
society to see? For example, I feel that Dick Olmstead's
review that he shared with the committee, David Hillis'
comments, and Kevin's response do a very good job of
articulating the position of the CPN, and it seems like the
authors and the society should be aware of these. Any
thoughts?</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">Best,</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">Dave</font></div>
<div>
<div> <br>
<div apple-content-edited="true">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; font-size: medium; ">
<div>_________________________________<br>
David C. Tank<br>
Assistant Professor & Director, Stillinger Herbarium<br>
University of Idaho<br>
208.885.7033<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dtank@uidaho.edu">dtank@uidaho.edu</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.phylodiversity.net/dtank/">http://www.phylodiversity.net/dtank/</a></div>
</span>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On May 9, 2012, at 9:10 AM, Mike Keesey wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Cantino, Philip <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cantino@ohio.edu">cantino@ohio.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Here is a revised definition of
"species" that I proposed for the glossary<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">in January, incorporating a
change that Michel recommended on an earlier<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">draft I sent to the CPN:<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">species. A taxonomic unit that
is variably conceptualized as a kind of<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">biological entity that may or
may not be different from a clade or simply as<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">a taxon of low rank in
traditional nomenclature. This code does not endorse<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">any species concept nor provide
rules for defining species names, but it<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">uses species names governed by
the rank-based codes to refer to taxa that<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">are used as specifiers in
definitions of clade names. Article 21 provides<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">guidelines for the use of
species names governed by the rank-based codes in<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">conjunction with clade names
governed by this code.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I like this definition. The first sentence is a bit
difficult to read,<br>
though. Perhaps: "A taxonomic unit that is variably
conceptualized as<br>
a kind of biological entity (which may or may not be
different from a<br>
clade) or as a taxon of low rank in traditional
nomenclature."<br>
<br>
While we're on the subject of updating the code, I note
that some of<br>
the other codes have changed their names since the last
draft of the<br>
PhyloCode was created. The International Code of
Botanical<br>
Nomenclature (or the Botanical Code) is now the
International Code of<br>
Nomenclature for algae, fungi, and plants (ICN) and the
International<br>
Code of Nomenclature of Bacteria (or the Bacteriological
Code) is now<br>
the International Code of Nomenclature of Prokaryotes
(ICNP). These<br>
are trivial updates that should be included in the next
draft.<br>
<br>
This was published yesterday by the International
Committee on Bionomenclature:<br>
<br>
David & al. (2012). Biological nomenclature terms
for facilitating<br>
communication in the naming of organisms. ZooKeys
192:67–72.<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://dx.doi.org/10.3897/zookeys.192.3347">http://dx.doi.org/10.3897/zookeys.192.3347</a><br>
<br>
It's basically an updated version of PhyloCode's
Appendix C (itself<br>
based on a BioCode appendix, IIRC). Happy to see it
includes the<br>
PhyloCode! I'd say the next draft should probably use it
verbatim<br>
(except with the PhyloCode column first, an additional
row for<br>
"converted" nomenclatural status, and perhaps any rows
where<br>
PhyloCode's entry is "[none]" omitted).<br>
-- <br>
T. Michael Keesey<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tmkeesey.net/">http://tmkeesey.net/</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CPN mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CPN mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
UMR 7207
Muséum National d’Histoire Naturelle
Batiment de Géologie
Case postale 48
43 rue Buffon
F-75231 Paris cedex 05
FRANCE
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tolweb.org/notes/?note_id=3669">http://tolweb.org/notes/?note_id=3669</a></pre>
</body>
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<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hi Dave (and all others),<br>
<br>
What you propose is fine by me.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Michel<br>
<br>
On 11/05/12 21:30, David Tank wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:E61BDD56-4015-4AF9-897B-9D6328B3E82E@uidaho.edu"
type="cite">
<div>Hi All,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
It's been brought to my attention that the results of the vote on
the CMB proposal have been made public: <span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; font-size: 14px; "><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://3lbmonkeybrain.blogspot.com/2012/05/phylocode-will-not-be-amended.html">http://3lbmonkeybrain.blogspot.com/2012/05/phylocode-will-not-be-amended.html</a></span>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">Clearly community discussion is what we wanted all
along, but the unfortunate thing is that the authors of the
proposal found out about the results of the vote not from us,
but through the grapevine via this blog, and they are not too
happy about it. </font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">I feel that it is our responsibility to communicate
directly with the authors to let them know where we are in
this process and give them some idea of the discussion that
took place. Something along the lines of:</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">Thank you for your thoughtful proposal for changes to
the PhyloCode, with respect to species. The CPN has voted to
reject this proposal, however, with that decision, the
committee also decided to continue discussion of the proposal
to identify if there are elements of the proposal we would
like to consider as revisions of the current draft code. That
discussion is still ongoing, and we will make you and the rest
of the society aware of these changes through the news section
of the ISPN website. </font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">Please feel free to edit - add, delete, etc. - I want
this communication with the authors of the proposal to come
from the CPN, not just me, so I appreciate your input. Also,
I wonder if we should post several of the responses and or
snippets of the discussion for the authors and rest of the
society to see? For example, I feel that Dick Olmstead's
review that he shared with the committee, David Hillis'
comments, and Kevin's response do a very good job of
articulating the position of the CPN, and it seems like the
authors and the society should be aware of these. Any
thoughts?</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">Best,</font></div>
<div><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
size="4">Dave</font></div>
<div>
<div> <br>
<div apple-content-edited="true">
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; font-size: medium; ">
<div>_________________________________<br>
David C. Tank<br>
Assistant Professor & Director, Stillinger Herbarium<br>
University of Idaho<br>
208.885.7033<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dtank@uidaho.edu">dtank@uidaho.edu</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.phylodiversity.net/dtank/">http://www.phylodiversity.net/dtank/</a></div>
</span>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On May 9, 2012, at 9:10 AM, Mike Keesey wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Cantino, Philip <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:cantino@ohio.edu">cantino@ohio.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Here is a revised definition of
"species" that I proposed for the glossary<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">in January, incorporating a
change that Michel recommended on an earlier<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">draft I sent to the CPN:<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">species. A taxonomic unit that
is variably conceptualized as a kind of<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">biological entity that may or
may not be different from a clade or simply as<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">a taxon of low rank in
traditional nomenclature. This code does not endorse<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">any species concept nor provide
rules for defining species names, but it<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">uses species names governed by
the rank-based codes to refer to taxa that<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">are used as specifiers in
definitions of clade names. Article 21 provides<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">guidelines for the use of
species names governed by the rank-based codes in<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">conjunction with clade names
governed by this code.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I like this definition. The first sentence is a bit
difficult to read,<br>
though. Perhaps: "A taxonomic unit that is variably
conceptualized as<br>
a kind of biological entity (which may or may not be
different from a<br>
clade) or as a taxon of low rank in traditional
nomenclature."<br>
<br>
While we're on the subject of updating the code, I note
that some of<br>
the other codes have changed their names since the last
draft of the<br>
PhyloCode was created. The International Code of
Botanical<br>
Nomenclature (or the Botanical Code) is now the
International Code of<br>
Nomenclature for algae, fungi, and plants (ICN) and the
International<br>
Code of Nomenclature of Bacteria (or the Bacteriological
Code) is now<br>
the International Code of Nomenclature of Prokaryotes
(ICNP). These<br>
are trivial updates that should be included in the next
draft.<br>
<br>
This was published yesterday by the International
Committee on Bionomenclature:<br>
<br>
David & al. (2012). Biological nomenclature terms
for facilitating<br>
communication in the naming of organisms. ZooKeys
192:67–72.<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://dx.doi.org/10.3897/zookeys.192.3347">http://dx.doi.org/10.3897/zookeys.192.3347</a><br>
<br>
It's basically an updated version of PhyloCode's
Appendix C (itself<br>
based on a BioCode appendix, IIRC). Happy to see it
includes the<br>
PhyloCode! I'd say the next draft should probably use it
verbatim<br>
(except with the PhyloCode column first, an additional
row for<br>
"converted" nomenclatural status, and perhaps any rows
where<br>
PhyloCode's entry is "[none]" omitted).<br>
-- <br>
T. Michael Keesey<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tmkeesey.net/">http://tmkeesey.net/</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CPN mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CPN mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
UMR 7207
Muséum National d’Histoire Naturelle
Batiment de Géologie
Case postale 48
43 rue Buffon
F-75231 Paris cedex 05
FRANCE
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tolweb.org/notes/?note_id=3669">http://tolweb.org/notes/?note_id=3669</a></pre>
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</html>