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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear colleagues,<br>
<br>
I support Phil's suggestions, at least items 3 and 4 (I did
not have time to read up on the others).<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Michel<br>
<br>
On 27/08/12 17:19, Cantino, Philip wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:1B272EF8-A5CA-4A72-824A-D704726E5E56@ohio.edu"
type="cite">
<div>Dear CPN,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you, Dave, for returning the CPN to the task at hand.
Now that everyone has presumably returned from fieldwork and
vacations, I hope we can bring this matter quickly to a
conclusion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding item 2 in your list, I suggest that we broaden it
to Art. 21 in general rather than David M's specific
recommendations, because other people may have additional
changes to recommend in this article.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In addition, I would like the CPN to consider adopting the
following changes that were proposed by (or at least related to
the proposals of) CBM:</div>
<div>1) Modify the Preamble to the wording suggested by CPN</div>
<div>2) Delete Note 3.1.1</div>
<div>3) Reword Art. 9.7 (but the modification I prefer differs
from that recommended by CBM); see below.</div>
<div>4) Reword Rec. 9c (but the modification I prefer differs from
that recommended by CBM); see below.</div>
<div>5) Delete Rec. 11.4B (because I don't think this code should
recommend what people do under the rank-based codes. What the
recommendation suggests is simply sensible nomenclatural
practice and therefore likely to be done anyway).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding my item 3 (Art. 9.7), which concerns the required
statement about the hypothesized composition of the named clade,
I want to retain the option of citing species (contrary to CBM)
but add a requirement that <u>if specimens are cited in the
composition statement</u> (as may be done by authors who agree
with CBM's perspective), then the author must also include the
name of a species or clade (less inclusive than the one whose
composition is being described) to which the specimen can be
referred, unless the clade whose composition is being described
does not contain any named species or subclades. My objective
here is to avoid the use of specimens <u>alone</u> to describe
the composition of clades larger than those approximating
species. CBM should not oppose this addition because it leaves
open the citation of subclades rather than species, which is
what most people would do anyway, regardless of their views
about species.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding my item 4 (Rec. 9c), I would like to reword the
recommendation slightly to include referral of less inclusive
clades as well as specimens. It would read: In order to
facilitate the referral of <b>less inclusive clades, as well as</b>
species <b>and specimens</b> that are not specifiers of the
clade name, the protologue should include a description,
diagnosis, or list of synapomorphies. [Proposed additions are
in boldface.]</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Phil</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Aug 25, 2012, at 12:20 PM, David Tank wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear CPN -
<div><br>
</div>
<div>After too long of a lag, we need to come back to the
'CBM species proposal' and wrap this up. The Cellinese et
al. Systematic Biology paper is now published (Syst
Biol 61(5):885-891).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When we last left this, there were only two changes
that the CPN agreed to consider:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) Broadening the definition of species</div>
<div>2) David M's recommended changes to Art. 21</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Are these the only items that we would like to consider
changing based on the 'species proposal'? Because there
has been such a long pause in this discussion, I want to
give a final opportunity for the CPN to consider other
categories of changes before specific wording/changes are
made.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Therefore, what I would like from you is a list of
general categories of changes that you would like to see
incorporated (an example being the suggestion to make the
definition of species more neutral/general). General
categories will be much easier to discuss rather than a
list of specific proposed modifications to the wording of
the PhyloCode.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please take the time to re-familiarize yourself with
the proposal and respond with any general categories of
changes by <b>Monday, September 3</b>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Once we agree on which points we are going to consider,
we will then deal with the specific wording/additions to
the PhyloCode before sharing them with the authors of the
original proposal. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks much and best,</div>
<div>Dave</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>_________________________________</div>
<div>
<div apple-content-edited="true">
<div>David C. Tank<br>
University of Idaho<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dtank@uidaho.edu">dtank@uidaho.edu</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.phylodiversity.net/dtank/">http://www.phylodiversity.net/dtank/</a></div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
CPN mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CPN mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
UMR 7207
Muséum National d’Histoire Naturelle
Batiment de Géologie
Case postale 48
43 rue Buffon
F-75231 Paris cedex 05
FRANCE
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php">http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php</a></pre>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear colleagues,<br>
<br>
I support Phil's suggestions, at least items 3 and 4 (I did
not have time to read up on the others).<br>
<br>
Best wishes,<br>
<br>
Michel<br>
<br>
On 27/08/12 17:19, Cantino, Philip wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:1B272EF8-A5CA-4A72-824A-D704726E5E56@ohio.edu"
type="cite">
<div>Dear CPN,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you, Dave, for returning the CPN to the task at hand.
Now that everyone has presumably returned from fieldwork and
vacations, I hope we can bring this matter quickly to a
conclusion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding item 2 in your list, I suggest that we broaden it
to Art. 21 in general rather than David M's specific
recommendations, because other people may have additional
changes to recommend in this article.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In addition, I would like the CPN to consider adopting the
following changes that were proposed by (or at least related to
the proposals of) CBM:</div>
<div>1) Modify the Preamble to the wording suggested by CPN</div>
<div>2) Delete Note 3.1.1</div>
<div>3) Reword Art. 9.7 (but the modification I prefer differs
from that recommended by CBM); see below.</div>
<div>4) Reword Rec. 9c (but the modification I prefer differs from
that recommended by CBM); see below.</div>
<div>5) Delete Rec. 11.4B (because I don't think this code should
recommend what people do under the rank-based codes. What the
recommendation suggests is simply sensible nomenclatural
practice and therefore likely to be done anyway).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding my item 3 (Art. 9.7), which concerns the required
statement about the hypothesized composition of the named clade,
I want to retain the option of citing species (contrary to CBM)
but add a requirement that <u>if specimens are cited in the
composition statement</u> (as may be done by authors who agree
with CBM's perspective), then the author must also include the
name of a species or clade (less inclusive than the one whose
composition is being described) to which the specimen can be
referred, unless the clade whose composition is being described
does not contain any named species or subclades. My objective
here is to avoid the use of specimens <u>alone</u> to describe
the composition of clades larger than those approximating
species. CBM should not oppose this addition because it leaves
open the citation of subclades rather than species, which is
what most people would do anyway, regardless of their views
about species.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding my item 4 (Rec. 9c), I would like to reword the
recommendation slightly to include referral of less inclusive
clades as well as specimens. It would read: In order to
facilitate the referral of <b>less inclusive clades, as well as</b>
species <b>and specimens</b> that are not specifiers of the
clade name, the protologue should include a description,
diagnosis, or list of synapomorphies. [Proposed additions are
in boldface.]</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Phil</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Aug 25, 2012, at 12:20 PM, David Tank wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear CPN -
<div><br>
</div>
<div>After too long of a lag, we need to come back to the
'CBM species proposal' and wrap this up. The Cellinese et
al. Systematic Biology paper is now published (Syst
Biol 61(5):885-891).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When we last left this, there were only two changes
that the CPN agreed to consider:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) Broadening the definition of species</div>
<div>2) David M's recommended changes to Art. 21</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Are these the only items that we would like to consider
changing based on the 'species proposal'? Because there
has been such a long pause in this discussion, I want to
give a final opportunity for the CPN to consider other
categories of changes before specific wording/changes are
made.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Therefore, what I would like from you is a list of
general categories of changes that you would like to see
incorporated (an example being the suggestion to make the
definition of species more neutral/general). General
categories will be much easier to discuss rather than a
list of specific proposed modifications to the wording of
the PhyloCode.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please take the time to re-familiarize yourself with
the proposal and respond with any general categories of
changes by <b>Monday, September 3</b>.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Once we agree on which points we are going to consider,
we will then deal with the specific wording/additions to
the PhyloCode before sharing them with the authors of the
original proposal. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks much and best,</div>
<div>Dave</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>_________________________________</div>
<div>
<div apple-content-edited="true">
<div>David C. Tank<br>
University of Idaho<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:dtank@uidaho.edu">dtank@uidaho.edu</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.phylodiversity.net/dtank/">http://www.phylodiversity.net/dtank/</a></div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
CPN mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CPN mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
UMR 7207
Muséum National d’Histoire Naturelle
Batiment de Géologie
Case postale 48
43 rue Buffon
F-75231 Paris cedex 05
FRANCE
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php">http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php</a></pre>
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