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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi,<br>
<br>
I agree with both points 1 and 2 below.<br>
<br>
Michel<br>
<br>
On 28/03/13 21:35, Cantino, Philip wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:ABE5E956-9573-453B-A9BD-13A01D62C02D@ohio.edu"
type="cite">
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charset=ISO-8859-1">
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Dear CPN members,<br>
<br>
I am attaching a third revision of the proposed changes in
Art. 21. The two new changes, which were suggested by Jim
Doyle, are highlighted in green.<br>
<br>
I think the only remaining disagreement concerns Note 21A.1
and its Example 1. The proposed wording discourages
changing the ending of a uninomen to agree in gender or
number with a clade name it is combined with if that clade
name is not also the name of a genus under the appropriate
rank-based code. (Although David M. says that the proposed
wording "forbids" changing the ending of a uninomen in this
situation, the Note reads more like a recommendation.)<br>
<br>
I am going to call for a vote now, although if anyone feels
that more discussion is needed, please say so. <br>
<br>
I am asking that everyone vote on two questions:<br>
1) Do you approve the proposed changes to Art. 21, without
consideration of Note 21A.1 and its Example 1?<br>
2) Do you approve of the proposed wording of Note 21A.1 and
its Example 1?<br>
<br>
Please send your responses to the listserv. Let's give
ourselves until the end of the day on Monday (April 1) to
vote.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Phil<br>
<br>
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<font size="2">
<div class="PlainText"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mar 28, 2013, at 6:04 AM, Michel Laurin wrote:<br>
<br>
> I agree with Kevin and Phil on this point. Besides, the
number of people <br>
> learning Latin is steadily decreasing, right? So soon,
very few people <br>
> would be able to use Latin grammar (at least, without
taking hours to <br>
> check rules, roots, endings, and the like).<br>
> <br>
> Cheers,<br>
> <br>
> Michel<br>
> <br>
> On 27/03/13 21:44, de Queiroz, Kevin wrote:<br>
>> Remember also that these combinations of species
uninomina with with clade names are not formal "new
combinations" as in the rank-based codes. Using one does
not constitute a nomenclatural act. They are simply, as
some people have called them, "clade addresses"--that is,
ways of indicating clades to which the species in question
belongs. In this context, it makes no sense to change the
spelling of the species uninomen to agree (in gender and/or
number) with its "clade address", because the uninomen is
not an adjective or a possessive modifying the clade name.
Instead, as indicated in Art. 21, it is being treated "as a
name in its own right." In addition, one can list as many
of these "clade addresses" as one wishes, and it will often
be impossible for the uninomen to agree with all of them.<br>
>> <br>
>> Kevin<br>
>> ________________________________________<br>
>> From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cpn-bounces@listserv.ohio.edu">cpn-bounces@listserv.ohio.edu</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cpn-bounces@listserv.ohio.edu">cpn-bounces@listserv.ohio.edu</a>] On Behalf Of Cantino, Philip
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cantino@ohio.edu">cantino@ohio.edu</a>]<br>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:50 PM<br>
>> To: Committee on Phylogenetic Nomenclature<br>
>> Subject: Re: [CPN] Revision of proposed changes in
Art. 21<br>
>> <br>
>> David, I disagree with you on this point. I think
that pluralizing uninomina to agree with plural clade names
will create unnecessary confusion for readers. To me, the
main reason for changing the gender to match a clade name
that is also a genus name is to avoid unnecessary divergence
from the way users of the rank-based code are spelling
combinations involving the same pair of names.<br>
>> <br>
>> Phil<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> On Mar 27, 2013, at 1:11 PM, David Marjanovic
wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>>>> I think you are misinterpreting Note
21A.1. The note begins "When a<br>
>>>> species uninomen is combined with a clade
name that is not also a<br>
>>>> genus..." This is the only situation the
Note refers to in saying<br>
>>>> that the ending of the uninomen should not
be changed to agree in<br>
>>>> gender or number. If a uninomen is
combined with the name of a clade<br>
>>>> that is also a genus, the last sentence in
the Note doesn't apply.<br>
>>>> [...] Would adding that qualification
resolve the<br>
>>>> problem you are seeing in the current
wording?<br>
>>> No. I think agreement with non-genus names
should be optional as well;<br>
>>> according to the new Note 21A.1, it is outright
forbidden.<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> CPN mailing list<br>
>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
>> <br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> CPN mailing list<br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
>> <br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> CPN mailing list<br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
>> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Michel Laurin<br>
> UMR 7207<br>
> Muséum National d’Histoire Naturelle<br>
> Bâtiment de Géologie <br>
> Case postale 48<br>
> 43 rue Buffon<br>
> F-75231 Paris cedex 05<br>
> FRANCE<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php">http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php</a><br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> CPN mailing list<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
<br>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CPN mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Michel Laurin
UMR 7207
Muséum National d’Histoire Naturelle
Batiment de Géologie
Case postale 48
43 rue Buffon
F-75231 Paris cedex 05
FRANCE
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php">http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php</a></pre>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi,<br>
<br>
I agree with both points 1 and 2 below.<br>
<br>
Michel<br>
<br>
On 28/03/13 21:35, Cantino, Philip wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:ABE5E956-9573-453B-A9BD-13A01D62C02D@ohio.edu"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div class="BodyFragment">
<font size="2">
<div class="PlainText"><br>
Dear CPN members,<br>
<br>
I am attaching a third revision of the proposed changes in
Art. 21. The two new changes, which were suggested by Jim
Doyle, are highlighted in green.<br>
<br>
I think the only remaining disagreement concerns Note 21A.1
and its Example 1. The proposed wording discourages
changing the ending of a uninomen to agree in gender or
number with a clade name it is combined with if that clade
name is not also the name of a genus under the appropriate
rank-based code. (Although David M. says that the proposed
wording "forbids" changing the ending of a uninomen in this
situation, the Note reads more like a recommendation.)<br>
<br>
I am going to call for a vote now, although if anyone feels
that more discussion is needed, please say so. <br>
<br>
I am asking that everyone vote on two questions:<br>
1) Do you approve the proposed changes to Art. 21, without
consideration of Note 21A.1 and its Example 1?<br>
2) Do you approve of the proposed wording of Note 21A.1 and
its Example 1?<br>
<br>
Please send your responses to the listserv. Let's give
ourselves until the end of the day on Monday (April 1) to
vote.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Phil<br>
<br>
</div>
</font>
</div>
<div class="BodyFragment">
<font size="2">
<div class="PlainText"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mar 28, 2013, at 6:04 AM, Michel Laurin wrote:<br>
<br>
> I agree with Kevin and Phil on this point. Besides, the
number of people <br>
> learning Latin is steadily decreasing, right? So soon,
very few people <br>
> would be able to use Latin grammar (at least, without
taking hours to <br>
> check rules, roots, endings, and the like).<br>
> <br>
> Cheers,<br>
> <br>
> Michel<br>
> <br>
> On 27/03/13 21:44, de Queiroz, Kevin wrote:<br>
>> Remember also that these combinations of species
uninomina with with clade names are not formal "new
combinations" as in the rank-based codes. Using one does
not constitute a nomenclatural act. They are simply, as
some people have called them, "clade addresses"--that is,
ways of indicating clades to which the species in question
belongs. In this context, it makes no sense to change the
spelling of the species uninomen to agree (in gender and/or
number) with its "clade address", because the uninomen is
not an adjective or a possessive modifying the clade name.
Instead, as indicated in Art. 21, it is being treated "as a
name in its own right." In addition, one can list as many
of these "clade addresses" as one wishes, and it will often
be impossible for the uninomen to agree with all of them.<br>
>> <br>
>> Kevin<br>
>> ________________________________________<br>
>> From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cpn-bounces@listserv.ohio.edu">cpn-bounces@listserv.ohio.edu</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cpn-bounces@listserv.ohio.edu">cpn-bounces@listserv.ohio.edu</a>] On Behalf Of Cantino, Philip
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cantino@ohio.edu">cantino@ohio.edu</a>]<br>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 3:50 PM<br>
>> To: Committee on Phylogenetic Nomenclature<br>
>> Subject: Re: [CPN] Revision of proposed changes in
Art. 21<br>
>> <br>
>> David, I disagree with you on this point. I think
that pluralizing uninomina to agree with plural clade names
will create unnecessary confusion for readers. To me, the
main reason for changing the gender to match a clade name
that is also a genus name is to avoid unnecessary divergence
from the way users of the rank-based code are spelling
combinations involving the same pair of names.<br>
>> <br>
>> Phil<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> On Mar 27, 2013, at 1:11 PM, David Marjanovic
wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>>>> I think you are misinterpreting Note
21A.1. The note begins "When a<br>
>>>> species uninomen is combined with a clade
name that is not also a<br>
>>>> genus..." This is the only situation the
Note refers to in saying<br>
>>>> that the ending of the uninomen should not
be changed to agree in<br>
>>>> gender or number. If a uninomen is
combined with the name of a clade<br>
>>>> that is also a genus, the last sentence in
the Note doesn't apply.<br>
>>>> [...] Would adding that qualification
resolve the<br>
>>>> problem you are seeing in the current
wording?<br>
>>> No. I think agreement with non-genus names
should be optional as well;<br>
>>> according to the new Note 21A.1, it is outright
forbidden.<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> CPN mailing list<br>
>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
>>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
>> <br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> CPN mailing list<br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
>> <br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> CPN mailing list<br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
>> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
>> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> Michel Laurin<br>
> UMR 7207<br>
> Muséum National d’Histoire Naturelle<br>
> Bâtiment de Géologie <br>
> Case postale 48<br>
> 43 rue Buffon<br>
> F-75231 Paris cedex 05<br>
> FRANCE<br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php">http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php</a><br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> CPN mailing list<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a><br>
<br>
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</font>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CPN mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CPN@listserv.ohio.edu">CPN@listserv.ohio.edu</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn">http://listserv.ohio.edu/mailman/listinfo/cpn</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Michel Laurin
UMR 7207
Muséum National d’Histoire Naturelle
Batiment de Géologie
Case postale 48
43 rue Buffon
F-75231 Paris cedex 05
FRANCE
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php">http://www2.mnhn.fr/hdt203/info/laurin.php</a></pre>
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